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Done PR:BF2 Player Report - ARC*fecht_niko, RaFyHun, SpunkMaster, DusanYUgoslavia

Discussion in 'Player, Admin and Server Reports' started by MasterHenaz, Jun 6, 2018.

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    Guest Unit - KIA

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    Rushing is defined as follows:
    3.Stopping the enemy from entering the radius of the enemy's first cappable flag.

    Rule refers to player intention which is very rarely will be objectively understood; when rules do so it leads to stretching borders by players themselves. This truck might were riding around cap zone without intention to enter it.

    So it looks like:
    - We are not killing enemies on the way to 1st capable
    - I'M ASKING YOU NOT TO DO SOMETHING
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    fecht_niko fecht_niko POV Leader

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    Thread is becoming super off topic.

    If you watch the BR or tracker you'll see our jeep flanking all around the west to come behind the enemy APCs.
    Flanking all around is the opposite of rushing btw....
    At some point we see the enemy IFV (not on first flag at all) and our HAT misses, we move west to avoid getting shot by it.
    The flag was capped already and only 1 squad went north (not in cap) to build a FOB.
    We rearmed the HAT and didnt notice the enemy squad. A few seconds later enemy LAT rekt our jeep and they killed us all.

    So no rushing, not even the intention to rush. Nice try bongols. get a life.
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    you were between GER main and ther first flag before it was capped... Protip: don't be between enemy main and their first flag before it is capped or it looks like you're preventing them entering their first flag, nobody gives a fuck what your intentions were
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    Rushing is defined as either preventing the enemy from entering to the first flag, entering to the radius of the first flag, or killing enemies inside the radius of the first flag. Rushing is allowed after 10 minutes, or if the flag has attack marker on it. In this case you drove your jeep pretty much on the route between first flag and enemy main base, and shot that truck trying to go to the first flag. That is clearly "preventing to enter". Rules have no say in whether or not the first flag has to be neutral for the rushing rule to be effective, so even after they cap the first flag, you can't prevent them from entering to the cap radius of the first flag.

    Dusan is correct that this should be handled by admin ingame with warning, kill command or temp ban. Admins need to communicate enough to handle these rush rules properly, and also could be that no reports about the incident were issued ingame. I should probably check that.
    Lorfah, [QRF] Frontliner and TabZa like this.
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    They didn't enter flag zone and didn't kill enemies inside it. Being in between first cappable and base is allowed by rules, pro tips like "don't be in between first flag and main" are not in the ruleset. Killing people which have the intention to enter the first flag is forbidden, and only this kind of people, rules allow killing people who drive by because they don't have the intention to enter it.

    How do you know the intention of truck driver, what he is going to enter cap radius? He might be heading to a different place, and then this is not killing of people trying to enter cap radius.

    Rule need adjustment, it need to be cleared from reference on player intentions.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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    PR:BF2 Administrator Foxtrot

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    4.2.3 Stopping the enemy from entering the radius of the enemy's first cappable flag.

    How do you know the intention of truck driver, what if he is going to enter cap radius? He might be heading to the cap radius, and then this is killing of people trying to enter cap radius.
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    I get that. The current ruleset probably utilizes "common sense" which actually doesn't work when we talk about these kinds of restrictive rules. People will just push the borders as much as possible so we end up in this kind of situation.

    Do you have any ideas on how to do the rule without using "player intention" as the basis? And how to not do it too overly complicated.
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    Guest Unit - KIA

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    Flag icon position always constant. You take big grid square where flag icon is present, extend it to 2x2 big grids towards team's main, and this is the zone where attacking people counts as attacking ones entering the first cappable. Easy to track via map. Examples below.

    bandicam 2018-06-07 15-43-12-355.png
    bandicam 2018-06-07 15-47-03-652.png

    bandicam 2018-06-07 15-49-24-206.png
    bandicam 2018-06-07 15-48-45-789.png

    bandicam 2018-06-07 15-49-49-561.png
    bandicam 2018-06-07 15-50-12-843.png

    bandicam 2018-06-07 15-50-30-995.png
    bandicam 2018-06-07 15-50-44-125.png
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    GLORYWINGS GLORYWINGS ''GLORYWINGS''

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    As soon as the bleed flag capped its attackAble
    Or if does it have attack mark on it ..
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    You can argue all you want, but according to 4.2. you should not mess with people that could be going to the cap radius (they don't even have to stop and cap), or even be around the flag as you legally can't do shit with it for the first 10 minutes. Unless you can read their mind, killing anyone between first flag and main is against the rules.
    Lorfah, TabZa, agus92 and 1 other person like this.
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    Agree, but only with people that indeed go to cap radius, not ones who spontaneously or intentionally abuse rules to get shielded by them. If poeple are not going to cap radius I can kill them by rules.

    They don't have to stop, they can not cap flag since it is capped, can't disagree. But for first this people need to get to flag or their intention to get into it should be unambiguous, and then they get rules armor.

    Rules clearly define that I can't attack, not be. I can legally do any shit I want if I don't break rules, specifically if I'm not interfering enemy that act to enter cap radius, not killing people inside cap radius, not entering cap radius by myself.

    Unless PRTA don't have certain text in ruleset I'm not up to reading admin minds and trying to figure what do they probably try to stretch and bend this time. Text in rules is the only criteria that can legally force any player to correct their gaming in conflict situations, exactly text says that player shoudn't do. The rest is allowed, and tree_hugger can't forbid it.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    It's clearly rushing, knock it off. You guys are better than this! If that wasn't clear before it should be now.

    Is there any changes in our rules that is required to give clarification to this @ARC*fecht_niko, RaFyHun, SpunkMaster, DusanYUgoslavia
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    And who decides if they won't go to the cap? you? on maps with linear flagroute like Wanda you never know... Why not set up between first and second flag like a normal killwhore and rek shit there??

    This is not about admins bending the rules or whatever. If you try abusing (circumventing) imperfect rules you can expect outomes like this (CANCER has enough experience with this). It's good to show that certain rules are flawed (like armour sq rule was), but don't be mad if you get reported.

    I can't forbid you anything, I'm not an admin lol. You can go right ahead and rush first flags all day, couldn't care less.
    Lorfah and hairyballs like this.
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    Claiming if they rushed or not now depends on intentions of truck driver Fedorthekiller at moment prior to his death.

    It is supported by rules that you agreed to. Now you bend them claiming accused people rushed, however this is not clear since it depends on truck driver's intention.

    I think writing in global chat on round start that specific truck moving through certain grid would diminish to zero misunderstandings, they will have recorded intention. Enemy team will understand where they shouldn't go.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2018 ---
    Truck driver or his SL decides. In this specific situation this was the same person with sniper kit, Fedorthekiller.

    I heard people talking about being normal, but this must be some rumors, there are nothing about it in the rules.

    Reporting on forum about so many rushing rule violation is not a normal thing according to rumors. Shouldn't this reports be dismissed as weird by that logic? that's clearly have some deviations involved.
    So why not make rules that more perfect than they are now? It is good to show that some rules flawed, I wonder if this continues into fixing this flaws.

    I haven't been reported btw.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    Allright Chuva, I don't think thats feasible. Please suggest an alternative solution to avoid anyone rushing the area between the mainbase and the first cappable flag.
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    I already suggested the way to define objectively people as somehow related to 1st cappable or just ones driving by. The idea is few posts above. If you wish you can scale flag-dependent zone to 3x3 or 4x4 big grids. I think this idea suits quite well, it refers to distinct borders on map and implies that not everyone who is far away from flag gets rules protection. Examples in form of pictures can be annexed in spoiler under rule, I believe this site allows this.

    It is possible to make correction that 10 min passed and capped flag both allow to attack first cappable but with this to forbid any killing in between main and 1st cappable totally. The criteria to tell if kill happened in between can be made of same method: flag grid makes one corner, mainbase near border makes 2nd corner. All in rectangle in between is no-kill area.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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    DusanYU DusanYU صدام حسين عبد المجيد التكريتي

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    Clarification? The truck was moving God knows where atleast 350 meters from the edge of cap radius. Keypad is 100x100m.

    This could have been solved ingame. If not it should have been reported that evening or the next day not 5 days later.
    And admins should give a statement why didnt they respond ingame if it was a rush.

    You are blowing this out of proportion but hey its typical bongol way. Make enemies not friends in a community which has 3-4 servers up.


    But hurt drama queens who are rushers them selfs.
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    PR:BF2 Administrator Foxtrot

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    Wicca you dont put enough effort into it. PRTA and all other servers should consider this:
    After the round starts its forbidden to leave main and every player has to individually present the ruleset and gets and evaluation for his/hers/its presentation. When the admins think everbody has understood the rules there will be a public vote!

    The vote looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    People who agree and understood the rules go to the grid with the !
    People who dont agree go to the grid with the ?
    And People who feel threatened or have their feelings hurt can go to the Safespace marked with S.

    If there are people in the ? grid they can write a short essay about their problems which will presented to the team and will be followed by a discussion. After the discussion there will be a new vote where everybody has to choose his/hers/its grid again.
    If there are people in the Safespace grid the admins will talk to each person individually and try to calm them down by offering chicken tendies.
    This process gets repeated till everbody is in the ! grid. If this happens the admins will talk to the admins on the other team if they are ready aswell. If so the teams are allowed to leave main, but only after everybody put on his/hers/its bicycle helmet!
    The PR-community wants to argue about everything and this would be the perfect solution!
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    There won't be a chance to argue at all since the border is clearly defined. All debates happen only because rules don't define a border that won't be possible to bend, because of common sense go over blurred borders for ones and otherwise for others. No one argue because of asset rule since rules define it unambiguously.

    I don't get your irony. I've seen yet not much of effort for solving the future cases from mongols for a resident administrator. What I propose is simple to track for admins and can be explained visually and via text. No matter how stupid it might looks like it will work because it depends on same thing for everyone and it is quite simple.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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    Except the border is clearly defined as "4.2.3. Stopping the enemy from entering the radius of the enemy's first cappable flag". GER truck was following the only road leading to the flag. Saying he would't go to the flag is 10/10 hindsight...

    Easy solution: Not sure? Don't engage.
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