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Announcement Contact! Season 3 Prep-Meeting 1st of November 2020 @ 1800 UTC.

Discussion in 'News' started by PRTA Bot, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. Online
    Wicca

    Wicca Project Founder Events Dept. Head Comms Dept. Head Head of PRTA Games Dept. Head Community Dept. Head PR Lead Administrator Squad Lead Admin Potato Regiment

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    My opinion / your opinion.

    I disagree with you, you disagree with me. :smile:
     
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    Daniel

    Daniel PR Guest Administrator THOT Donor

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    um ok
     
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    Smek

    Smek IC

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    As long as the rules are confidently and consistently executed it will hold up. If you fuck up, people will object at every chance they get. Make sure that doesnt happen.
     
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    fecht_niko

    fecht_niko POV Leader

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    only happens when we get some monkey CO but we still carry the team as much as you can carry monkeys
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2020 ---
    I couldnt make it to the meeting so here some questions:

    -Will we have proper CO who actually spend time on deployment plan?

    -Who will decide which squads play on which side?

    -Who will decide which maps/layouts?
     
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    ElusiveJoe

    ElusiveJoe IC

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    What about forming two core-teams (for example 30 people each team) and some "mercenary" platoons? So the core teams stay together have chain of command, battle planning and all other stuff and have to pick some "mercenary" squads for the battles? In that case people who think that they might end up in a bad team might want to sign up as mercenaries so they will be in different teams each game. People who just want to have fun in more teamwork-oriented games and don't want to think about battle planning also sigh up as mercenaries. Those who want to feel the team spirit and all other things sign up as regular squads for one team. So it would be possible to balance teams after each battle and we will have full-scale battles.
     
    Yrzn and Chuva_RD like this.
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    Sloan

    Sloan Proper planning prevents piss poor performance. Technical Dept. Head Sysadmin Lead Coder

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    If people believe it may happen this time then you can expect that the other groups won't want to see you in any battles. Play fair or you won't be playing much of this tournament.
    That will be up to the platoons on each team.
    Partially the participants, partially the skill estimates.
    Not decided yet.
    It becomes too difficult to re-balance the matches unless team identity lies with the platoons.
     
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    ElusiveJoe

    ElusiveJoe IC

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    why? COs of every team pick mercenary platoons before each game, the team that lost previous game gets the right to pick first, so CO can actually see all the mercenary squads available and can decide which would fit the most in his battle plan.
     
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    Wicca

    Wicca Project Founder Events Dept. Head Comms Dept. Head Head of PRTA Games Dept. Head Community Dept. Head PR Lead Administrator Squad Lead Admin Potato Regiment

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    Look, we already had a 2-hour meeting. It was decided which style to go for. Platoon system with 48v48 player size battles.
    I don't want to do an infinite loop of why's, buts, and re-suggestions.
    If you had made the meeting, you could have suggested that.

    I'm going to prepare a smaller announcement for the task force, for anyone who wants to help daily/weekly on writing up the rules, setting up the processes, and preparing the tournament.

    Hopefully, we can find a good "How-to-make-a-battle-plan" guide, and post that up with some useful resources such as googles free PowerPoint things.

    I think commanding is going to be a big additional thing it's hard to balance, along with battle planning.
     
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    fecht_niko

    fecht_niko POV Leader

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    Or you kys
     
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    tobi-the-fraggel

    tobi-the-fraggel 'Princess Negativity'

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    Conclusion. Some matchmaking systems aren't perfect. I guess we all can agree. Simply based on experiences with those games. The consequence shouldn't be to avoid matchmaking at all.


    I'd say ratings will always have a certain variance. Undoubtedly ratings will be best when the tournament ends.
    The major issue seems to be experience with team composition during the last tournaments. If I understood it correct, then those experiences lead to the decision to work with an unbiased way of determining skill.
    So, the question is, do you want to follow the way of the past or try out something new?


    I am not sure what issues you see. The tracker data is fairly accurate. It's more important which data points to pick out of all the available data. CAS_ual_TY made a rating system in Java if I am not mistaken. A system solely based on tracker recordings. As far as I remember it's been solid. On the other hand, for trueskill win/loose is the most important factor if I am not mistaken and I can't remember whether tracker persist it within a player object.
    Anyhow, I fully agree on the player base being the more pressing issue. I've actually went through the recording Wicca posted. It's two hours as you know and hell, don't ask me why I did listen to two hours of teamspeak chat. Maybe I just wanted to listen to a good 'ol PRTA meeting and boi did I not get dissapointed :biggrin:
    I thought your idea is an interesting one, hence why I commented. I wanted to know more. The meeting actually solved some of the questions I had. It leaves me indecisive about considering trueskill or not. I guess the following statements describe my current impression:
    1. Using an unbiased system is good
    2. Telling people about it, probably wasn't a good idea. Simply as anything more complex than basic arithmetic leaves peoples event horizon. In consequence people don't understand, and what they don't understand, they don't trust.
    3. Starting without evaluation battles almost certainly guarantees unbalanced first rounds
    4. No one likes evaluation battles
    5. Having balanced teams without using any mathematics has been proven by previous PRT tournaments
    6. Last contact tournaments have proven that they couldn't get balanced teams
    7. Player base is both toxic and small. Difficult to have a discussion unbiased as to the result.
    8. Number of groups expected to sign up hardly exceeds the bare minimum number to get good results out of rating
    So yea...lots of problems without clear solutions. I agree with you about Trueskill being a possible solution to balancing issues. I agree with Wicca about the need of a positive attitude. If people expect a fail, then it will fail, no matter how accurate your matchmaking will be. This straight out addresses the problem of sign-ups. Like, who signs up and why. Will enough people actually sign up. Trueskill or not it depends more on emotions then it does on balance. That's the most notable impression I got out of listening to the meeting. It's entirely possible that a large scale event like this, just isn't what people are really hungry for and that would be sad indeed but a failed tournament due to a lack of dedication in the player base would be far worse. That would damage reputation too much imo.

    In general I like the objective approach in using matchmaking logic as said. If it turns out that people don't have enough interest in the event, I'd love to see tracker data being used next year for skill measurements on individual level to determine pre tournament squad/platoon composition. During the tournament skill rating should be applied on squad/platoon level. Simply as good individual ratings don't tell how good people cooperate in a team.

    I am not going to respond further on this topic. Simply as I am not really a part of anything even nearly related to the tournament, which includes PR itself. Mostly I just wanted to say "hi" and have a little chat with you. :smile:

    Have a good one
    tobi


    rude
     
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    fecht_niko

    fecht_niko POV Leader

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    If we dont get the numbers stick to 32 vs 32 players.
    Worked pretty good back then.

    Tbh most maps dont really suit 100p.

    Balance would be pretty easy not perfect but doable if you have the same amount of proper inf and asset players on both sides.
    Add 2 public squads on each Team and thats it.
    Dont overcomplicate things
     
  12. Online
    Wicca

    Wicca Project Founder Events Dept. Head Comms Dept. Head Head of PRTA Games Dept. Head Community Dept. Head PR Lead Administrator Squad Lead Admin Potato Regiment

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    Tobi, low-key calling PR players stupid XD.

    Niko, you didnt make the meeting, we already decided this. If you want to help, there is an upcoming Task force signup.
     

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