1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Become a member of PRTA today, fill out the application form here.
  3. Hey Guest, It'd be great if you'd consider making a small contribution here. All support is greatly appreciated!

Feedback battle recorder and analyzing tools tutorials/explanations (prta admin viewing recommended)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DogACTUAL, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
    This thread is not meant as a troll post, so please do not remove.

    I found that PRTA admins and admins of other communities that judge hacker proof lack a lot of understanding of the exact working of battle recorder and analyzing tools affiliated with it. With many false claims being thrown around and many misconceptions being accepted as truth. For example that DA laser snaps onto players and other stuff. This in my opinion severely inhibits said admins to make a proper judgement call on more high profile reports where a lot of emotions and disinformation is involved.

    I want this thread to be a place where i and others can post videos and explanations that, backed by clear proof of concept debunk said misconceptions and showcase different subleties better. I think this can make a positive impact in clearing up the muddied waters and establish a clearer baseline for recognizing even subtler cheating as such beyond a reasonable doubt.
    filamu and agus92 like this.
  2. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
    My first video, clearly demonstrating where the actual player camera is located on the soldier model in battle recorder:

  3. Offline

    Resident Moderator 9ª Compañía de Infantería

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    1,555
    Trophy Points:
    155
    PR:BF2 Name:
    Sgto|agus92
    I strongly applaud this initiative. Your last thread showed that there was a lot to be discussed in this regard.
  4. Offline
    tobi-the-fraggel tobi-the-fraggel 'Princess Negativity'

    Sysadmin

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    13,082
    Likes Received:
    6,329
    Trophy Points:
    301
    Occupation:
    Junior Data Analyst
    Location:
    Germany
    PR:BF2 Name:
    tobi-the-fraggle
    Well, a discussion helping people help interpreting demoanalyzer/battlerecorder videos almost certainly is a good thing. However, DogACTUAL a less reproachful approach is likely to get you more attention and support. A title including 'prta admin viewing recommended' probably isn't going to help. Especially as your videos aren't known for being free of doubts. I remember your first 30 sec, 60, sec, 90 sec. 'hacking proof' samples and how long it took to convince you of doing videos showing more then just a single situation. (Doesn't feel good read something like that right?...)

    So instead of mutual accusations of lacking knowledge, how about an objective thread in which we (the community) share knowledge about the function of battlerecorder and demoanalyzer. Do you think that could be a thing DogACTUAL ?
    DogACTUAL and agus92 like this.
  5. Offline
    fecht_niko fecht_niko POV Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    196
    Location:
    GER
    PR:BF2 Name:
    ARC*fecht_niko
    Moderator Edit: Removed personal attacks
    will there be a part called: Lack of gameplay knowledge? We could do a bootcamp and show whats possible and what not... Some guys have no clue about INF gameplay at all.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2018
  6. Offline

    PR:BF2 Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    PR:BF2 Name:
    BluFFeR_UK


    This is the very first video I have ever made,ever,I mean ever in my life. It's not the best, it hasn't got Demoanaliser on it BUT!!
    It does the trick as far as I am concerned.
    It shows the lead up to kills, it gives the viewer a chance to listen to the surrounding gun shots/noises. It rules out all doubt that he was told/he could hear/his sound card is amazing/ he got orders etc etc........

    This video doesn't need little red lines, it doesn't need Demoanaliser to see he is cheating.
    A video just needs to be well made, show all angles. Show all aspects of the round and show the lead up to kills and the after math.

    The problem I have with most videos that I see is that
    A- they are not conclusive,they are shot in such a way that produces doubt from the start.
    B- no lead up, no sounds, no aspect of what is actually going on in the round to justify the kills.
    C- most of the videos could be made about any decent PR player and if not produced correctly could make anyone of us look like a hacker.
    Videos need to show the bigger picture.
    SucharMistrz and fecht_niko like this.
  7. Offline
    GLORYWINGS GLORYWINGS ''GLORYWINGS''

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    170
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Location:
    Landzone
    Squad Name:
    Glorywings
    PR:BF2 Name:
    GLORYWINGS
    I dont think demosanalyzer is required if the battle recorder view it obvioisly

    Moderator Edit: Removed personal attacks
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2018
    DogACTUAL likes this.
  8. Offline

    Lead Mapper PR:BF2 Senior Administrator Mapper Jednostka Wojskowa Komandosów

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    155
    PR:BF2 Name:
    SucharMistrz
    Yeah, but in most cases accused are not known players playing PR for half a decade.
    New player with very high K/D, with no hash/IP associations with other players is probably just another cheater. In this case, any suspocious behaviour might be enough to ban the new player.
    DogACTUAL and =MeRk= BluFFeR like this.
  9. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Here is why recorded gameplay is never proof that someone was not hacking in the recorded round, found this on a 'certain' forum:



    As explained in the thread on the forum in question, this is actually quite easy to do and should be no problem to set up for someone that already knows how to install and use cheats. I think this is very important to know, as many take recorded gameplay as the ultimate proof of legitimacy, when it is really not at all and always must be taken with a grain of salt.
    agus92 likes this.
  10. Offline
    GLORYWINGS GLORYWINGS ''GLORYWINGS''

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    170
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Location:
    Landzone
    Squad Name:
    Glorywings
    PR:BF2 Name:
    GLORYWINGS
    then we can't ban people even if they cheat
    GG pr
  11. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Yes you can. All you need to do is review the BR and look for stuff that can not be explained, there are enough and easy tells of how to spot cheating.

    Now another matter. Question to all admins:

    I heard that some admins here are saying DA laser is unreliable. Can you please explain in more detail what exactly you think about it is unreliable and why?
  12. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
  13. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
    So this is pretty much the only unreliable thing about the laser i found and it is easily recognizable and a non issue once you know how to avoid it. Any other thing you know of that is unreliable? I just want to have a clear picture so one can go from there.
  14. Offline
    tobi-the-fraggel tobi-the-fraggel 'Princess Negativity'

    Sysadmin

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    13,082
    Likes Received:
    6,329
    Trophy Points:
    301
    Occupation:
    Junior Data Analyst
    Location:
    Germany
    PR:BF2 Name:
    tobi-the-fraggle
    DogACTUAL could you do some more testing in regards of the laser behavior?

    It is common knowledge it tends to act as if players have some sort of magnetic force affecting the laser. Resulting in the laser to kinda snap on to players. Regular explanation for this is the angle the laser 'shoots' from. The laser cone 'widens' with distance due to it's 'spread angle'. You can see that pretty well in the below old demo I just found. Even the player not using an aimbot seems to 'suddenly' lock right onto players close to his visual line.



    Your above test isn't really meaningful therefore. Make a video with a player on flat ground aiming at other players in close, medium and long range. Just to remove obstacles on map as a disturbing factor, make sure target players are also on flat ground and at the same height as the aiming player. A map like kashan would be good for this testing as it has a lot of wide open flat ground. Khami also would be a good fit.

    Test setting:
    1 player aiming slowly from left to right covering at least 60° degree view angle.
    Have a group of players within this 60° degree cone in various distances from the aiming player.
    Checkout the behavior of the laser. Is it keeping a straight line or does it tend to snap onto players close to it?
    agus92 and DogACTUAL like this.
  15. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Here a better video demonstrating the real location of the first person ingame player camera. The laser origin point always correctly shows where it is located (despite what certain people like to claim):




    If you are wondering why only agus is audible, i didn't assign my TS push to talk key in OBS, so you can't hear me talking to him.
    Thanks very much to agus for the great help!

    To tobi: This is only the first part of the testing session, soon i will also upload the specific tests you requested as well.
    agus92 likes this.
  16. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Ok, here is the testing that was requested:




    It clearly shows that the laser is completely reliable as long as the camera stays behind the player model. Inaccuracies can only happen if the camera is positioned far away from the player model at an odd angle, but even then it doesn't happen very often. Check the video description for more info on this.

    There is no laser snapping. The 'laser snap' is just an optical trick being played on people, with factors such as tags popping up suddenly, low recording quality of some BR files and players twitch aiming contributing to this look. I think my video makes that clear.

    Much thanks to agus, tobi and abtuly for helping out with this!
    agus92 likes this.
  17. Offline

    PRTA

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    91
    So why not any feedback from any of the admins here? Me, agus and abtuly put a lot of effort into making these videos and so far no answer.
    I don't want to rub it in your face that i was right or anything, but maybe at least get your reaction/criticism/thoughts, like if you agree with the results or if you have any objections or further inquiries.

    Especially since for long many admins here have operated under false assumptions concerning the accuracy and behaviour of the laser:
    Which obviously puts into question the ruling those admins made on several cheater reports, since it was at least partially based on a wrong understanding of the laser behaviour and it being disregarded as 'not reliable'.

    Again, just stating the objective truth here, all i want to do is have a productive discussion about this.
    agus92 likes this.
  18. Offline

    Resident Moderator 9ª Compañía de Infantería

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    1,555
    Trophy Points:
    155
    PR:BF2 Name:
    Sgto|agus92
    Mess cleaned. I STRONGLY recommed anyone compelled to comment to keep on topic.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018 at 13:30

Share This Page