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Admin Report Admin making the wrong decision (Based on PRTA Rules)

Discussion in 'Player, Admin and Server Reports' started by FORCE, Oct 14, 2018 at 01:19.

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    Discord:
    [CRC] FORCE#9392
    PR:BF2 Name:
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    Hi, I will keep it short.

    The following happened: A Admin/Moderator called Buttermilch has once again , made a pretty weird decision, this time making even less sense then the last time.

    2 Minute Marker on Iron Ridge, PRTA - Modern Conflict / 8PM Ish 14-10-2018. MONGOL Squad 3 named 'Mortels' and Squad 4 at that time was called 'CRC Mortars' lead and filled by a 4 man CRC Squad were made.

    I shouldn't even have to explain this. The first one to make the correct Asset Squad, gets the Asset, if the Squad is properly named. A Tank Squad must be called Tank, not Tanc. Same in this case, the MONGEL group didn't name their Mortar Squad correctly. They called it 'Mortels' , see picture for reference.

    Rule 6.5 of PRTA Server:

    "MORTAR" Squads.

    So what does Buttermilch do? He gives them the Mortars and disbands Squad 4.
    Reasoning on that, has once more not been given.

    You can look at the picture yourself for confirmation and ask Buttermilch for details.

    My point with this post is: Are we now gonna bend over and bias the rules based upon the Admins personal preferences/opinions or actually on the execution of the rules them self?
    Because what I see now, for example, is if I make a 'Tanc' Squad first and Scream the loudest, I will get the Tanks granted by the Admins maybe, despite that the other Squad correctly created a Tank Squad.

    Edit: Just to avoid drama, I am not looking for any actions being taken against either MONGOL nor Buttermilch, I am at best looking for a confirmation on what PRTA's stand is now on their own rules.

    Attached Files:

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    BubblyNinja BubblyNinja 乇乂ㄒ尺卂 ㄒ卄丨匚匚

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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    I would say either squad would be in violation of the rules if you are going to be technically this strict on the naming schematic, the squad should be called mortars and both squads should have been disbanded.

    Similarly maybe the squad leader does not have English as their first language, or was in a rush to make the squad quickly and therefor typed it incorrectly.

    Also, is it really so bad that another squad wanted to do mortars, it's a rarely loved team asset due to the boring and effect-less feedback the gunners see, I can only say I am happy this many players wanted to do mortars that round.

    There used to be a time where our admin team would argue and bicker with players, creating huge amounts of drama over naming squads correctly. I am happy to say this is not the case anymore, and most people get along with some jokey ways of naming CAS, Trans, Tanks etc. This is part of the Project Reality Culture, as most squad leaders do this anyway. Some people even have unique naming schemes they follow, which would probably not fit in with our ruleset if we had to follow it to the letter.

    So for sake of a better explanation, to get on with a game, and not spend needless minutes or dealing with grumpy gamers on a saturday evening, arguing over the naming conventions of some nth rule in our rule set, we choose to sometimes look at issues with our eyes half blinded. Because we know there is no difference in outcome, or a better outcome if we let it slide.

    Not sure how else to explain it, and sorry to see that you didn't get to play the mortars. Did you atleast have fun? :ninja:
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    WeedT0aster WeedT0aster The APC is pounding the FOB

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    Stop bending the rules, the squad must be named correctly and it’s stated in the rules.

    “No necessity to follow the rules to the word” then remove the rules stated, in this case I am going to name the Tank squad “Tanc” and so expect no punishment because “no need to follow the rules to the word”, and if you’re going to say context matters because mortars are not as valuable as tanks then exclude the Mortars from the naming rule.
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    PR:BF2 Administrator Foxtrot

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    I shouldn't even have to explain this. The first one to make the correct Asset Squad, gets the Asset, if the Squad is properly named. A Tank Squad must be called Tank, not Tanc. Same in this case, the MONGEL group didn't name their Mortar Squad correctly. They called it 'Mortels'. Same in this case, the CRC group didnt´t name their Mortar Squad correctly. They called it 'CRC Mortars' and not how it is stated in the rules: "MORTAR".

    Your argument is invalid if you insist on the accurate spelling of squads but didnt manage to do it yourself properly.



    [2018-10-13 18:44:27] !REPORT performed by 'MONGOL Jack_Howitzer': force duplicate squad
    [2018-10-13 18:44:51] !REPORT performed by 'MONGOL Jack_Howitzer': force duplicate
    [2018-10-13 18:44:55] !REPORTP performed by 'MONGOL TabZa' on '[CRC] FORCE_____': duplicate mortar squad
    [2018-10-13 18:45:05] !RESIGN performed by 'F|WIQQ Buttermilch25' on '[CRC] FORCE_____': doub
    [2018-10-13 18:45:05] !RESIGN performed by 'F|WIQQ Buttermilch25' on '[CRC] remove.kebab': doub
    [2018-10-13 18:45:05] !RESIGN performed by 'F|WIQQ Buttermilch25' on '[CRC] Halla95': doub
    [2018-10-13 18:45:05] !RESIGN performed by 'F|WIQQ Buttermilch25' on '[CRC] Palpatine': doub

    Here is your "not given" reason. Doub is vicarious for duplicate.



    [2018-10-13 18:44:27] !REPORT performed by 'MONGOL Jack_Howitzer': force duplicate squad
    [2018-10-13 18:44:51] !REPORT performed by 'MONGOL Jack_Howitzer': force duplicate
    [2018-10-13 18:44:55] !REPORTP performed by 'MONGOL TabZa' on '[CRC] FORCE_____': duplicate mortar squad

    I simply acted on these reports, dragging this into some kind of "personal preferences/opinions" shows that you are not able to stay
    objectively and your report is driven by your emotions because your feelings were hurt.
    Dont call your squad 'CRC Mortars' next time if your only argument is the correct spelling of the squad, simply call it Mortars if you are so eager to follow the rules because I realy do not care if you, the mongols or santa claus gets the Mortar squad.



    Just to avoid drama, this happend on Hades Peak the round after Iron Ridge (where the Mortar incident happend).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Looks familiar doesnt it? It is exactly the same situation as on Iron ridge.
    You didnt manage to give your squad the proper spelling of "TRANS"/"TRANSPORT" (stated in rule 6.7). Neither did I but I accepted that you got it first and disbanded my squad in less than a minute without making drama.
    Maybe next time you do the same.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018 at 10:32
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    VTRaptor VTRaptor Szeryf

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    6.4: "MORTAR" Squads
    CRC MORTARS=clear as day, all letters present in orderly manner.
    MORTELS= nope

    6.10: Squads require to be clearly named (not "C4$" etc.) otherwise they are considered as "INF".
    "CRC Mortars" is clear and "Mortels" is not. What the phuck is Mortel? Some french word?

    Also, I always make some additions to the asset squads i make since there can't be two squads with same name, so if there is two guys making TANK squad on 2 minute marker and the first squad is resigned by early squad script, the second one might not even appear since script takes miliseconds to disband that squad, and the second squad might've been made in right time, but would not appear because first TANK squad hasn't been disbanded yet.

    It's tricky, yes. Simple addition like TANK XYZ solves that problem.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018 at 11:22
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    TabZa TabZa pro rager

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    When I play, I have the rules page open on my 2nd monitor, and when I heard someone scream "Their grammar was wrong!" over Mumble, I couldn't help but laugh.
    I acknowledge it can be shitty and somewhat unclear at times when it comes to naming the squads.

    You wouldn't like if you made 'CRC TANK' first, and I made 'ARMOUR' after you and you'd get disbanded, because the rules say squadnames 'TANK'/'ARMOR'/'ARMOUR' have the claim.
    Since most longtime players have their own "signature way" of naming their squads, it isn't really feasible to go back to the "Oh, you made 'ARMOR' squad instead of 'ARMOUR' squad? Forgot the 'U'? Get disbanded" -level of control [à la Vatsug 2016-2017]. At least that's the way I see it.

    This comes from the Finnish word for 'mortar and pestle', mortteli -> mortel (Swedish). :troll:
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    I think that is the intended idea, that way there is no doubt who is first, since you can't make the same squad with the same name and claim the same asset.. :cat:
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    VTRaptor VTRaptor Szeryf

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    Have you read what I've said? One squad may get disbanded by script because it was made too early, but it takes miliseconds to do so. Second squad might've been made in right time, but first one would be still existing.

    But i'll give you an example: You make TANK squad on 2:00:00 marker, and Gaben makes squad on 1:59:59, it takes more than 0:00:01 for the script to work, so because of you and the script, Gaben would not get the asset even though he did everything correctly. It is hardcoded that there can't be second squad named the same as the previous one.
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    What script?
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    VTRaptor VTRaptor Szeryf

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    The one that disbands squads before 2 minute marker xD
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    Sloan Sloan Pirate

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    Screenshot from 2018-10-14 13-07-09.png
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    Your argument here is that the squadname was wrong. The rules say "squads require to be clearly named", and this would indicate that if people have trouble understanding that it's supposed to be a mortar squad, then the squadname is poor. So basically if you didn't understand the mortar claim, then it would be against the rules.

    At the beginning of the round, there's 5 APC squads created. The squads are then disbanded and "MORTELS" squad is born. 2 seconds later "CRC MORTARS" is made. The "MORTELS" squadname is the exact same length as "MORTARS", has 5 of the 7 letters at the same place "MORTARS" would have, and the squad had MONGOLS joining in and saying "okay we're gonna do mortars". Can you seriously say that you didn't understand the squadname and how that squad was going to claim mortars?

    It shouldn't be about ARMOR vs. ARMOUR anymore. It should be about claiming the assets that's supposed to have claim. I bet you did this report just because you were salty on how you created the squad 2 seconds lated than MONGOLs did. Don't be an asshole and claim mortars faster next time. I bet if you do it with "CRC MORTARS", you would be confused if "MORTAR"-squad would take the claim because someone is complaining about naming rules.

    MORTELS, not MORTALS.
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    Sloan Sloan Pirate

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    It's a closer match than mortars, and very relevant to the game.
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    PR:BF2 Administrator Jednostka Wojskowa Komandosów

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    To avoid future confusion there should be new rule that would say something like: "The squad should be correctly named that means it must have squad type core and it can have additional words, but separated by a space. e.g. CRC MORTAR FTW". In my opinion Buttermilch made wrong by disbanding crc mortar sq even when they make that sq after "mortel". BTW "mortel" word doesn't even associate with mortar, for me its similar to something like mortadela which is sausage

    mortadela.PNG
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    BubblyNinja BubblyNinja 乇乂ㄒ尺卂 ㄒ卄丨匚匚

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    Agreed ^

    IMO, at the time, "CRC MORTAR" had met the requirements of the rule and should never have been disbanded. The rule requires that the squad be clearly named (not "C4$" etc.) otherwise they are considered as "INF". It was clear that the CRC players intended to utilize mortar assets with the additional "CRC" simply denoting the clan/unit responsible of the asset, which is common practice in the game.

    Squad names such as "mortel" should not be considered at all valid as it is not clear what the purpose of the squad is to the team, regardless of what is communicated though mumble during brieing.

    The argument that "mortel" or "mortelli" is Finnish/Swedish for mortar and should, in turn, satisfy the rule requirement is unfortunately irrelevant as English is the server language: 1.2 Do not use a different language than english within public visibility (team chat, etc.).

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    You should add a rule that says the following: "Asset squad names can not deviate from the claimed assets name by more than four letters, three numbers and/or one capitalized letter. If the claimed asset has three or less letters in its name, as by NATO standards, it may only deviate by a syllable. Failure to comply to this rule will result in Wicca sending you an angry letter, which has the following written on it "Read the rules, cunt"
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    This is why we have so many rules, because of grammar nazis and people who think being a keyboard warrior is better than just playing the game.

    I reiterate:
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    With this logic squadname like "TANKKI" (finnish for tank) would be invalid, although it's probably 100% clear to everyone what the squadname is talking about. Squadname "MORTELS" with people manning mortars doesn't really leave any guesswork on what asset are they gonna claim.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 14, 2018 at 16:34, Original Post Date: Oct 14, 2018 at 16:29 ---
    ezgif-2-6cca46f8aff6.gif
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    Guest Unit - KIA

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    Instead of trying to discriminate standard for naming you better follow it, it exists especially to not let situations with two sides with conflicting positions and at once each of them being right to appear. It is public space, follow rules
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