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Feedback 3.1 and kit duplicating

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mectus11, Apr 26, 2020.

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    hairyballs

    hairyballs Starvin Marvin Foxtrot Platoon Member Zero Hoot e-Rekt

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    Literally everyone I play with does it nearly every round. It’s not a problem.
     
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    PacD

    PacD AREA 94 Platoon Member Zero Hoot e-Rekt

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    Including Front aka "drop ar for a sec"
     
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    Yrkidding

    Yrkidding Platoon Reserve PR Boomers Tournament Veterans 3dAC

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    Absolutely a set of scenarios that shouldn't get you banned in any event. With the information we have at hand I think it's fair to say that:

    1. It's relatively easy to end up with a duplicated kit in a squad through legitimate mistakes or in the heat of battle.
    2. Intentionally duplicating kits & skirting squad limits, especially those like a LAT or an AR can give any given squad a distinct, unfair, advantage compared to any given squad who is playing the game as designed by the [R-DEV]s.

    It's particularly difficult to police that given those two statements. Perhaps something along the lines of if an admin notices or receives a report about a duplicated kit in a squad they check their team list to see if it's true. If it is, the squad receives a warning to swap out the duplicate as soon as they can. There is a difference we can see between an accidental duplication and continued intentional duplication and that is the frequency. Accidents happen but it's pretty unlikely that they'll happen every single time the squad is respawning and 3 or 4 times with different kits through the course of an hour or longer round. The admin can check in on the squad on the tab list pretty easily and if it remains a trend through the round despiting warnings then the offender is kicked. If the trend is noticed through multiple rounds despite warnings and kicks, then the offender can receive a ban for a set period of time. It's also pretty unlikely that a kit is accidentally duplicated at the very beginning of the round.

    Issues with my solution:
    1. Does this eliminate kit duplicating entirely?
    Absolutely not, but it should reduce the amount that you're seeing it in general and especially through the course of one round. You might still see people getting away with it but reducing the impact is better than having no rule at all and you shouldn't see (or can react to) a squad doing it blatantly like with two ARs and two Sniper kits for example.
    2. Why bother if you won't eliminate it entirely?
    I agree that it definitely can have an impact on the game and rounds. If it didn't, people wouldn't do it. To reduce that impact and advantage is still serving to improve balance and the quality of rounds that we're seeing.
     
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    CAS_ual_TY

    CAS_ual_TY PR Guest Administrator Media Team AREA 94 Platoon Reserve United

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    I join squad A, take LAT
    I leave squad A
    Squad B has a LAT kit
    I join squad B
    Squad B now has 2 LATs

    Is this an exploit? Did I do anything exploity here? Or just follow simple game mechanics that are designed that way?
     
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    Bastiannn

    Bastiannn Platoon Member Zero Hoot e-Rekt

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    Since it came to the point where people from the dev team are pushing for it, contributors and developers, even lead developers, then they should take the lead as people of authority in the whole PR community and involve the administrations of other communities aswell - not just PRTA. For PRTA is only one of the servers, and just a meta rule change against an "exploit" on PRTA won't be enough if tomorrow PRTA doesn't seed and players are still allowed to do it on the other servers, then 2 days after they come back to PRTA and they will get policed. It just creates confusion amongst the playerbase when one server doesn't allow "exploits" and then others do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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    AlonTavor

    AlonTavor

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    tl;dr cba to read this

    For your events you can make the kit request have delays the same as Lat/Grenadier/Marksman by adding "support": 300 to KIT_ALLOCATION_DELAY in realityconfig_private.py, then like LAT/Marksman you need 5 minutes between requests per squad ID.

    Its not there because someone 10 years ago thought AR should always be available when spawning.

    devs not doing anything right now because we decided no more features for 1.6 and no one was really abusing it that much. Will probably just put support and breacher there with 120 seconds.

    Engine limitations: We are able to store references to kit objects and delete them when they are on the ground, and we could force people to drop kit by telling them its invalid (You know how ugly that is). the only real engine limitation I can think of with kits is that we cannot change a player's kit when he's holding it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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    Aleon

    Aleon Tournament Veterans Platoon Member Platoon NCO

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    If you want to police this you going to have to go down the rabbit hole.
    - Better start thinking about the punishment for when people join squads just to allow them a limited kit. The game is specifically made so that small squads can't get specific kits, and there is zero difference between doing that and getting more ARs.
    - Commander resigning to get shovel? Nope, exploit.
    - Someone going commander for SL kit? Sorry, that's an exploit.
    - Picking up a medic kit to revive while you already have 2 medics? Banned.
    - Deselect LAT kit to get an other one while LAT guy is dead? Punishable offense.
    - It might also be an exploit to request a new AR kit to rearm faster, because others might pick up your duplicated kit!
    - For that matter, if you just get a different kit, and leave your AR at the FOB, someone might pick it up and get banned. Shame.

    Have fun enforcing.
     
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    agus92

    agus92 Resident Moderator PR Resident Administrator 9ª Compañía de Infantería

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    A sensible stopgap solution.

    This is very true. Instead of the DEV team lobbing for rules on a server, this kind of community wide rules have to be discussed community wise, and they have to be enforced community wise.
    The problem with this approach is the classic with unhomogeneus admining: people that get banned for this will feel targeted, and complain that plenty other people are commiting the same crime unpunished. Also I imagine that targeting would happen indeed in few instances, admins are people after all and they have biases.

    This is why I still prefer my approach of only enforcing kit duping rules for squads with more than 2 same kits. Like your approach, it won't solve the problem completely, but it would have less problems associated.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 27, 2020 ---
    More evidence that black and white approaches don't work. :thumbsup:
     
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    AlonTavor

    AlonTavor

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    If you have any smart ideas for the kit-request logic that involve deleting kits from the ground in a way that doesn't feel stupid let me know.
     
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    wardlem10

    wardlem10 PR Resident Administrator

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    The squad I was in just now on muttrah ended up with 3 medics, god knows how but it certainly wasn’t planned or an instruction from our sl
     
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    Wicca

    Wicca Project Founder Events Dept. Head Community Dept. Head Games Dept. Head Head of PRTA Comms Dept. Head PR Lead Administrator Squad Lead Admin Potato Regiment

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    I think if we could keep the current soft limits on the squads, and hard limits on the team for 9 Automatic Rifleman, Grenadier, and breacher each.

    Then give the Rifleman an extra ammo bag, and keep that one and the medic infinite along with an officer kit. This means the team can have infinite riflemen, officers, and medics if they want since they are just fancy rifleman kits. But limit the more powerful kits.

    If we could have that included in the game, I think it would be easier to enforce.
     
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    CAS_ual_TY

    CAS_ual_TY PR Guest Administrator Media Team AREA 94 Platoon Reserve United

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    Give their names so we can ban them
     
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    Wicca

    Wicca Project Founder Events Dept. Head Community Dept. Head Games Dept. Head Head of PRTA Comms Dept. Head PR Lead Administrator Squad Lead Admin Potato Regiment

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    No... First we discuss and agree, then we enforce.
     
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    CAS_ual_TY

    CAS_ual_TY PR Guest Administrator Media Team AREA 94 Platoon Reserve United

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    Imma edit my already existing tracker parser to make a list of everyone who committed this violent crime. Imma download every single tracker file and run through it.
    Be careful what you wish for
     
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    VTRaptor

    VTRaptor (⌐ ͡■ ͜ʖ ͡■) Jednostka Wojskowa Komandosów DUPA Platoon Leader

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    tl;dr

    Fuck off with that restriction, you can have 6 ARs in one squad, who cares. Stop restricting gameplay in such a retarded way.
     
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    Smek

    Smek Carebears Platoon Leader IC

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    Really.. fucking pussies, different situations require different shit.. sometimes two lat kits sometimes three
     
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    Aurorian

    Aurorian Media Team Foxtrot

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    how did this just suddenly become an issue?
     
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    Wicca

    Wicca Project Founder Events Dept. Head Community Dept. Head Games Dept. Head Head of PRTA Comms Dept. Head PR Lead Administrator Squad Lead Admin Potato Regiment

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    I guess were bored waiting for 1.6 tbh.
     
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    Philrow

    Philrow PRTA Platoon Leader PR Boomers

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    It was never an issue because people never went overboard on using it. Sure, most people have probably used it to get an extra LAT kit if the first LAT kit was downed or whatever, but when suddenly over half the squad is using the strongest kit in the game? Yeah that's an issue.

    Imo. it should be pretty clear that there is a difference between accidentally having an extra kit once every now and then during clear half-wipes of the squad, and holding a flag with 4 ARs.

    Warn them once or twice once you notice they are running an extra kit, that they need to fall back and change kit ("waaaaaaahwah ruining my gameplay experience" well then don't make mistakes in the first place), and obviously kick if they refuse to do it.
    If you notice the same group "accidentally" having strong duped kits (AR, maybe LAT idk) very often, I'd say it warrants a report on the forums with tracker proof, and a ban for doing it.

    This is probably the best way, without altering game files and restricting the game, to seperate those who might end up with a duped kit once a month, and those actively abusing it for their sick KDR

    Ban Akiba

    everyone who likes this post is a weeb
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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    AlonTavor

    AlonTavor

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    Probably going to set them to 300s in a patch after 1.6

    The original commit in 2008 had Support at 90 seconds btw
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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