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Feedback New Rules (yes, again)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CAS_ual_TY, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. NOTKIA

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    New text for ruleset is hard to comprehend. As stated the main goal was to make it more easy to understand, but while it was partially cleared from water and stop-words, overall it became less easy.

    It should be 3.1 alongside with grosting/cheating/glitching and roadkilling as the rules breaking of which possess the most risk for gameplay. Exclamation marks need to be in first rows. "Do not talk about fight club" is the first because it is the most serious rule/

    It is not clear if this 40 is on your team or on the whole server.

    First time I've read it wasn't clear that it is the definition of rushing. Change it to "Rushing is: ...". Same for Mainbase section.

    First you introduce exceptions and then state that they are valuable. Should be opposite, at first state their value and then get into details. Player reads all expections first and like "why should I read it, this is irrelevant"

    This part literally exploded my brain, I understood nothing. The text doesn't represent timeline of team making squads, it chaotic. It doesn't state that maps are splitted into ones with IFV and ones without. APC squad are introduced after, not before.

    existed once, but only once)))

    I don't get what it means. Is it that duplicates are not allowed, or what 2nd instances of recon squad will be disbanded not regarding what happens, or what else?

    It repeats 32 times. Same for Do not _ that repeats nearly 20 times at the beginning of the ruleset.This "water" in each row doesn't carry new information.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
    Pink Panther, Lorfah and Wicca like this.
  2. Pink Panther Pink Panther lord of bliss

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    Wtf is this ? Are these the new rules ?
    Look, I don't know what is going one here. But there is one thing that is important, and it isn't trying to change everything.
    PRTA never allowed recon to be a rule. Recon didn't even exist in PRTA, cause nobody gave a fuck...
    PRTA doesn't allow loners. Recon squad = noob
    I liked having 4 men locked squads once, but having six people wasen't a problem for me either....
    Mortar squads ? Nobody does mortar squads. Its too ez to deploy a mortar.

    If your policy is to engage in having the minimum locked squads available. This has been put to test about 2 years ago, and we tried to bring more logistical support and communications in the game :
    -by making trans squad claim logistic trucks, and thus induce more players in the squad. About 6 places, cause 2 logistic trucks are in games. Trans could also do mortars eventually

    -On the other hand normal squads could claim choppers if trans wasen't using them. Cause sometimes in game, there is no one to pilot choppers.

    - Since trans was given more importance, the squad would act as a commanding intermediary, that would focus communications in game, and have more cohersive gameplay.

    - APC squad would of merged in with armor, cause armor squad usually didn't have enough members, have 8 members and thus make all vehicle gameplay in unity in one single squad. The aim was to make more reliable intel between APC and Tanks, aswell as combine intel with inf squads.

    - Infantry would of been able to claim all APC's, since armor could only do Tanks and LAV's (aswell as AAV's). Infantry, 8 men squads could now make fully autonomous chopper squads, but could also benefit from the mobility of APC's and ammo for FOBS and firepower. The lack of mobility from logistic trucks would then be removed, and vehicles would be less lost in the battlefield.

    - CAS could claim sniper kit and spotter kit. This would of made alteast a 4 man squad, that would of made the actual recon squad. And since CAS squad is the true die hard squad, anybody could pick up a kit and join. Eventually all loners would end up there, and so the population would of been managed.

    This was a gameplay overhaul that we offered, it would of offered a higher level of gameplay in large maps which is pretty much the most interesting maps to play to the maximum number of players. Overall quality of gameplay improvement was made as an ideal.
    The problems for it to succed was requiring a high level of skill from SL's in there ability to adapt and manage multiple styles of gameplay. It would also require more adaptable skill from overall players.
    But the main issue was lack of communication.

    We mostly inforced the trans rule, cause it was the most important one. But the admins didn't promote the changes enough, and the forums were a mess, cause an agreement couldn't be found.

    If you truly want to make a change. Make suggestion polls, and ask members to vote the rules.
    If you can do this. You can give a chance for PR to have a refreshing gameplay.

    Server keeps crashing.
    Server keeps crashing..
    Server keeps crashing...

    If you don't bring skirmish back if the server keeps crashing, you won't go anywhere. Otherwise I am out.
    agus92 and Wicca like this.
  3. Pink Panther Pink Panther lord of bliss

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    Add do not talk about "the fight club" as sole rule of the shoutbox. And make it big in the rule text, and in the server loading screen.
    Simplejack1969 likes this.
  4. Events PR:BF2 Resident Administrator AREA 94 Donor

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    I disagree.

    I agree. Done.

    You are correct. Done.

    I see your point there. Also edited this.

    I also see the point here.


    Already agreed before that the wording needs to be redone on the MECH INF / APC rules. Thats why I added the extra lines. Unfortunately I am not a mother tongue'er so its hard for me to define this in a short sentence.

    Yes no duplicates. Consequences should never be mentioned in the rules, otherwise players can abuse it. Knowing that the consequence is always a resignation by the admin they technically could keep doing it. If the admin then kicks him he would, technically, also break the rules. So no mention of consequences.


    It makes things clear, keeps everything short and makes easy sentences. Yes, it is repeated a lot of times, but the positives are way more heavy here than the negatives.

    ---

    No its a recipe for homemade pear juice.

    As someone who did recon in the PRT: Recon != lonewolfing. Rules still apply. The main reason it is there is to give more experienced/veteran players the ability to take a squad with only 4 people in it. AND without officer kit.

    Nobody gave a fuck about this being added to the rules either. This thread is up for quite a while.

    Once again, I disagree. The people you are talking about are already covered by the lonewolfer rule.

    Incorrect

    These "experimental" rules where a catastrophe, which is why they did not survive in the rule set quite literally. But I will go into these points anyways:

    - Good idea to take away the logi trucks from SLs in the beginning of the round
    - Good idea to let your logistics squad also take mortars. Mortar players who just want to do mortars will totally make sure the team has enough supplies 100% of the time, Im sure of that.
    - Good idea to put so many duties onto a single squad. They will totally be able to fulfill all of them.

    Hollywood agrees. When there is no one to pilot the choppers, you can take them anyways. And it is not like you can just ask the pilot, when he isnt able to do everything at the time.

    [​IMG]

    No. Once you have a backup vehicle to take when yours goes down, you will not care as much about it anymore and are more likely going to take a bigger risk, with the team suffering from this in the end.

    Lets go through this, again.
    Saaremaa:
    US: Every inf squad takes one APC, take controll of a lot of area in the beginning, typical pub opening.
    RU: All APCs are together in a unit.

    Now:
    - Who has more momentum? Correct, RU
    - Who is going to win fights? Correct, RU
    - Why? Because even if a single APC is missing from US in an all-out fight, RU have such a high advantage that they have to make a serious mistake to lose this fight.
    - But muhhh LAT kits: Who says that the russians dont carry infantry with them? Who says that there is no RU inf nearby? Why wouldnt the driver just jump out and grab a lat from the APC (like it is common already)?

    [​IMG]

    No. These changes would turn out as an absolute shitshow.

    No, the main issue is that most people are simply used to "APC" "TANK" "CAS" "TRANS" rules and that they would not learn an entire new rule set just to play on a specific server, especially with the numbers back at that time.

    No, people were confused and complained. Admins were probably confused as well and made mistakes.

    Because this thread isnt up for MONTHS amirite?


    Fixed it for you. I hate it, too, trust me. And I did everything I could to get rid of this. But its simply not possible.
  5. fecht_niko fecht_niko POV Leader

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    Fagualty is right in all points.
    Dont over complicate rules and dont force a play style.

    On the other hand I would love to see a weekly seeding with skirmish as a test.
    VTRaptor and Hunter291 like this.
  6. GLORYWINGS GLORYWINGS ''GLORYWINGS''

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    Skirmish wont seed
    Arabs prefer to play coop instead of fallujah skirmish or any other skirmish maps
    No
    Skirmish is tested
    It wont seed
  7. Wicca Wicca Project Founder

    Head of PRTA Squad Lead Admin PR:BF2 Resident Administrator NATO Potato

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    What I know works, is if you get 15 guys togheter each day. or more and just flash seed. It works on anymap really. Better yet.

    If you get 100 people to seed a server boom.
  8. GLORYWINGS GLORYWINGS ''GLORYWINGS''

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    You mean 100players allot of time in the round server will crash?
    This is why server crash allot recently?
  9. Pink Panther Pink Panther lord of bliss

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    CAS_ual_TY
    The idea wasen't to force a new playstyle. But attract a specific type of player in PRTA and do something different. Maybe use another server for new rules could of been more reliable. I think those players are even rarer now.

    I think your counter arguments are too relative to assess anything. But your main line and I agree is that indeed people are used to play in a specific way, but on the other hand dumbing down the game doesn't make anything better aswell.

    I don't like your sarcasm, cause I am serious about this, and I can't see what you really think.

    You say this is up for months ? So what does that justify ? That since nobody gave further replies, you thought you could make the changes on your own ? What does your vision of the game have anymore in value then someone else's ?

    What makes you tell, that any of these suggestions don't work ? What exactly did you try already ?
  10. fecht_niko fecht_niko POV Leader

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    Sounds very interesting. Lets start a new server (EU2 would be a good name) with a new admin team (maybe a former DEV as leadadmin)
    This will 100% work and dont cause any drama. I swear to K-Rivers!
    Wicca likes this.
  11. DusanYU DusanYU صدام حسين عبد المجيد التكريتي

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    Omg dont get yourself banned again, I dont want to play on Borat servers.

    jk jk

    Rivers was a massive trash.
  12. GLORYWINGS GLORYWINGS ''GLORYWINGS''

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    Omg fechtNiko
    I am not yelling at wicca again
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    Could we get a rule that states "FOBS" claims one logistics truck? I think some accountability over where logi's go after their initial use would be nice. Right now logi's are very much seen as a one-use superfob builder, which is fine if you have a good trans squad, but which can quickly turn any map into a loss if only light helicopters or no helicopters at all are available for logistics.

    Now over to MECH INF:

    TL;DR: I'm happy with a shitbox, as long as I actually get a shitbox.


    Regarding MECH INF, I don't mind these changes: I like squad leading Mech Infantry, and I actually prefer using the lightly armoured assets which only require one crewman to operate. While a medium APC can certainly help, the point of mech infantry is to have something big and scary engage enemies on a point, allowing the infantry to sneak in from the sides and basically kill everyone who is no longer watching their entrances.

    As long as a vehicle moves fast enough (like the VAB, which is also silent) and handles well, I'm happy. I'd prefer a BTR over a MT-LB for reasons of speed, but I'd also prefer the AAVP over the LAV because the AAVP holds 8 people. In summary, this is what I need for a mechanized infantry vehicle, sorted from most important to least:
    Vital:
    - Holds 8 people
    - Moves quickly across the battlefield (I'll decline a MT-LB, but happily accept a VAB)

    Nice to have:
    - Only requires 1 crewman
    - Has HE/Frag so infantry can be engaged behind walls.
    - Can take a LAT hit (which can, as pointed out, actually be a disadvantage if the vehicle gets tracked)


    The only problem I have is that:

    1) On half the maps (Assad Kahl, Bamyan, Dovre (/Winter), Burning Sands, Fallijah West (no respawn), and lots more...) MECH INF is no longer allowed, because the APC squad claims both APC's.

    2) Compounding the problem, there needs to be a rule that states the following:

    "If heavy-asset squad does not have enough people to properly man all the assets it claims, it forfeits its claim on the surplus assets until it can muster enough crew and the claimed assets are destroyed. "

    in other words:

    "Assets claimed by other squads while surplus do not have to be returned to base but are once again property of the heavy-asset once destroyed"

    So let's say I play on Bamyan with the current rules:

    I spawn in and make a mechanized infantry squad. I get everyone organized, after a lot of discussion get someone to be crewman to gun, and after one minute, everyone is finally ready to leave.

    Then someone comes in and makes an APC squad, and no one joins. Even if I claimed the Stryker, I now have to tell everyone in my squad that we can no longer claim the Stryker, and we'll have to wait for helicopter. I can ask the APC squad whether the stryker can be taken, but they could very well say no. Or an admin could claim that since the APC squad claims all APC's, my squad is not allowed.

    This is obviously wrong: a single person, or even 2 people should not be able to claim assets enough for 4, and thereby deny 8 people the chance to make an impact on the game.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  14. BubblyNinja BubblyNinja 乇乂ㄒ尺卂 ㄒ卄丨匚匚

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    also insert CAS_ual_ty's trumpsoundsgooddoesntwork.gif here
  15. fecht_niko fecht_niko POV Leader

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    Just spawn yourself or send a guy to the next Logi, drive back to main, rearm it, build new FOB.
    I dont see the problem with people using it to build FOBs. Problematic are people using it as transport or HAT,AA,Combatengi prefering big crates...
  16. Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    I always find it funny when a hat or lat player or even a sniper takes a truck..

    Whyyy
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  17. NOTKIA

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    HAT on truck has speed and ammo. There was a good experience of this combo working as QRF when armor appears in certain zone. It works worse for RPG-like HATs.

    Like Soban play with HAT is not the only way to handle the kit
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    You're quite right that that is a simple solution if you know where your team parked the logi's, nut I can no longer see the logi's on the map if they are not manned for a certain period of time. And when was the last time anyone answered to a call over squad chat "Where are the logi's?" ? Most people don't die at the 5 minute mark, and logi's are regularly used as additional transport for squads (I admit I've done that myself, but if all you get is a jeep).

    If your team is losing a game, there's a good chance that half your logi's will be in the middle of enemy territory. Because transport trucks become scarce as well, the people you mentioned who lonewolf and use logi's as transport account for the remaining logi's, which leaves the other 49 without any place to spawn but main.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 12, 2018 ---
    It also prevents every other squad from using that logi as a way of building fobs.

    If you want to use this tactic, ask the APC squad for rides, or at the very least, find a transport truck which has been abandoned in the field. (Please don't grab a transport truck from main and drive away alone).
  19. Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    Well obviously it is a tactic, but it means removing that asset from the team completely. Since we now have 100 player servers, that truck might mean a squad or half left in mainbase. To gain a destroyed tank, or a lost HAT kit, since noone is nearby reviving.

    Atleast bring a team with the HAT incase infantry comes or the HAT kit is taken out.. TEAMWORK BRO :inlove:
  20. Events PR:BF2 Resident Administrator AREA 94 Donor

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    Let me respond to this step by step.

    First, we do not have the playerbase to attract a specific amount of players for a specific rule set. Remember when PRTA made APCs claimable by trans? Thats one of those examples for 2 points:
    1st: The idea behind this was probably to make the APCs used more as a transportation vehicle for infantry with WAY less fighting than in the current meta. Sounds nice. What happened? Either you still had APC squads with confused and complaining people (shitshow) or those APC asset whores would now simply make the TRANS squad instead of the APC squad, which means, that you have now given the main controll over your supply lines to people, who do not care about the supply lines, primarily. Thus the sentence "Sounds good, doesnt work", because the problem I see here is obvious I guess.
    2nd point: Partially already mentioned, some people can adapt, most people will not. I tried some different rules in the past, which have worked and most veterans agreed on after thinking about it, but the majority simply did not think and complained over and over until I had to remove them again.

    I am sorry about my sarcasm, its just how I am sometimes.

    This thread is up for months, which justifies the following:
    - I do not need to wait for suggestions anymore to implement this ruleset, as the last replies were also months ago
    - Me finally kicking in the rule set. Everyone had a chance to add something to the discussion. I did NOT do this alone
    I never said that I had a "better vision of the game" or anything like that. But I think that a lot of people can agree on the fact, that the old ruleset was very blurry and that my experience definitely helps making a new, waterproof and easy to understand ruleset (tho I have to agree that some things need to be reworded, as stated multiple times already).

    I know that these work, because these are common rules used on common servers in the past.

    Point by point again.

    No. Too abusable. You only think of the good cases, but trust me, the bad cases will outmatch the good cases.

    ---

    The current rules are not abusable by MECH INF and not abusable by APC. Usually you have the following conflict:
    - People who play MECH INF a lot want to have a claim on APCs even if that would mean you have to split 2 APCs and fight 1v2 each.
    - People who play APCs a lot want to keep more combat power than they truly need or more vehicles because their group of friends need that many.

    Since you are part of the first group, I will just repeat myself, like I did in this thread 4 times already, with an argument entirely against MECH INF:
    "Lets go through this, again.
    Saaremaa:
    US: Every inf squad takes one APC, take controll of a lot of area in the beginning, typical pub opening.
    RU: All APCs are together in a unit.

    Now:
    - Who has more momentum? Correct, RU
    - Who is going to win fights? Correct, RU
    - Why? Because even if a single APC is missing from US in an all-out fight, RU have such a high advantage that they have to make a serious mistake to lose this fight.
    - But muhhh LAT kits: Who says that the russians dont carry infantry with them? Who says that there is no RU inf nearby? Why wouldnt the driver just jump out and grab a lat from the APC (like it is common already)?"

    Now I could also find an argument against APC of course, but I hope you understand that almost everybody agrees on the fact, that the current rules balance out this conflict pretty well. Which is why this compromise was found. You are only giving examples where MECH INF suffers claim power, what about Saaremaa? APCs automatically give up up to 2 vehicles - 4 personnel.

    ---

    Incorrect. If you take the vehicle before the squad was made, YOU have claim, as CLEARLY written:
    "6.15. If the asset is not claimable or it has not yet been claimed by any squad the player who comes first gets control over the asset until he abandons it."

    If we add a rule, that you can only claim an amount of vehicles when you have the numbers for them in their squad, then people will stop joining them. Lets say there are 6 tanks. 2 are manned, 4 in the tank squad. Why would me and my buddy join the tank squad? We could just take a tank and be protected from getting "outclaimed" by the rule above. This would entirely break the purpose of squad based claiming. If we modify the rule to fix that, then the last case you mentioned comes alive. Think ahead before suggesting changes, please.
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