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Suggestion Gamemode votes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Woxbel, Jul 30, 2018.

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    I have spoken to many people during my time playing pr, about different issues I perceive are currently happening in PR I felt like sharing one of them in a more public way for once. I want to start off by saying this isn’t meant as an attack on anyone or any community and I am not looking to have a Rage filled thread here this is just my opinion/suggestion that I believe would improve the PRTA server.


    When PRSD got removed I took a clear step back on how involved I am with the PRTA community but it still is my favorite server to play on even though that isn’t a big accomplishment these days.

    For that reason but also others I am not willing to take an admin position so replying become an admin so you can help change things won’t go anywhere. I have generally always had respect for the Admins that do that work and have never really been in trouble with any of them.


    Gamemode votes


    Democracy is in theory a nice concept and something you can’t really be against you would say.


    My problem with it is if it’s a 100 person server and the vote is 12-8 in favor of insurgency. That means the total amount of votes is only 20 % of the players ofc everyone had their chance to vote so I understand the: “it’s their own fault argument”. But that argument doesn’t get you anywhere if during that next round the 80% that didn’t vote leaves or gets annoyed.


    One of the biggest things that annoys me is ins getting loaded up wasting my time I have always been pretty open about it I despise insurgency and am of the opinion that even if you have two really good and coordinated teams the round is at best going to be as enjoyable as an average AAS round.


    I understand that there are probably people that do enjoy playing insurgency or that despise it less than I do. Most people that I have spoken to that do like it fit in the next two categories:
    they like to be Bluefor on them or they are generally players I don’t enjoy playing with.
    I am sure there is a 3th group that just likes them and are players that I would enjoy playing with but they must be in the minority.


    My obvious solution to the insurgency problem is to have PRTA remove the AAS vs INS vote and just default to AAS. With if you really want to having the occasional evening that you play INS.

    The benefit of this would be that with this decision PRTA puts itself in a niche that if that server gets seeded and I and other people that dislike INS join we know it won’t get ruined by an Insurgency map creating more goodwill to get people seeding and to choose PRTA over other servers.


    To be clear upfront I am perfectly fine with having Insurgency during the Seed if that works best.


    I wrote this post a while ago but whenever I thought about posting it I decided not to since it isn’t really my normal approach but yesterday evening once again another perfect PR evening got ruined so I feel I can’t wait any longer with posting this.


    The example case of what happened yesterday:

    1. Gaza ins server basically seeded
    2. Al Basrah loads up I decide to suffer through it even though the whole game was a chaotic troll party and there wasn’t any progress on the blufor side of things.
    3. A vote comes up for INS AAS people weren’t paying attention ins wins 21-20 one vote difference with only 21% of the people voting for insurgency resulting in me just closing the game pretty soon after that.
    4. I kept an eye on it this wasn’t even the last ins map played this evening.
    cassius23, Terrry, agus92 and 3 others like this.
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    Hey woxbel!
    Thank you for writing a really well put togheter post/thread.

    I really agree with your oppinion, generally seeding is accomplished with insurgency, and I have time and time again suggested we remove the INS VS AAS vote.

    Sometimes, when the server has been up since say 1200 PRT/UTC. There is a lot of balancing and player churn, people coming and going etc. This means the balance of the server is nearly impossible to manage. Putting on AAS maps might make one team feel completely overrun and result in multiple steam rolls & people subsequently leaving the server for a more relaxed game on a server that is playing insurgency.

    I definetly see your point when it comes to setting insurgency maps on set days more than others. But I would also argue that until the clock hits say 1600 or 1700 PRT/UTC, insurgency still should have an equal playing field on the server, simply due to the lack of skill of the players that play that early, or just europeans looking for a more laid back game.
    Woxbel likes this.
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    I am fine with the time stipulation since I tend to play after that.

    But to be clear unless I am converting the PRT time wrong my example case happened after 17:00PRT. Also my suggestion wasn’t to set ins on some days more than others it was to never set it during primetime unless on special occasions.

    the “lets balance with ins” thing always seems to be the wrong solution to the problem although I do admit balance is a hard issue to solve.

    I always get the impression that the quality of gameplay after such a “lets balance with ins round” is gone all together it isn’t making the bad team better it is making the good team worse although I can’t objectively prove this.

    I am happy you seem to be supportive of the Idea
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    Foxtrot

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    "But that argument doesn’t get you anywhere if during that next round the 80% that didn’t vote leaves or gets annoyed."
    If they dont participate in the vote they can ligma balls.

    We could try something else. First we let them vote on the environment of the map.
    Then we pick three maps which fit in the environment and then we could do an AAS or INS vote, if the map allows it.

    For example:

    !mv Urban Forrest Desert
    Urban wins the vote
    !mv Beirut Marlin Grozny
    Marlin wins the vote
    !mv Marlin_AAS Marlin_INS

    And for the next mapvote we switch Urban for Vietnam so the environment isnt the same for the next map.

    Pro: Players on the server might feel more included in the vote
    more variety of maps
    Contra: Lots of votes = server might crash
    SucharMistrz likes this.
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    BubblyNinja BubblyNinja 乇乂ㄒ尺卂 ㄒ卄丨匚匚

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    I'm all for doing the vote based on the map environment but we're making new problems for ourselves when we split the vote between 2 versions of the same map. The variety usually found with regular votes is lost.

    We should exclude the AAS vs. INS vote when the admins on the server deem it neccessary.
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    Foxtrot

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    Yea true didnt thought about that. We could only put maps in the vote which have both gamemodes but then we would never play maps like kokan or lashkar.
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    Too many votes imo. Should make more work outside the game, and just give the players 2 options. Thats it.
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    I on purpose kept map votes and map choices out of this even though I have my opinions on that as well but I feel like it will interrupt the discussion and I think there is less consensus on that issue so I would prefer you make your own thread if you want to talk about map choices.


    “"But that argument doesn’t get you anywhere if during that next round the 80% that didn’t vote leaves or gets annoyed."
    If they dont participate in the vote they can ligma balls.”

    This also isn’t really going to lead to any constructive discussion or improvement I feel.
    once again I approached this from the angle: what is going to make the PRTA server better meaning (gameplay,seeding,popularity) people miss votes it happens even in real democracy they have a certain percentage of votes that have to show for it to be valid.

    You also missed my point I prefer playing AAS no matter what map over playing INS.

    Thanks for informing me about the more votes = more crashes thing I would like to add that to arguments in favor of removing the AAS INS vote
    cassius23 likes this.
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    PR:BF2 Resident Administrator

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    I unfortunately have to agree that we should avoid ins. While ins on blufor can be fun although somewhat easy, playing opfor is the opposite. You can if you are lucky, with a good group, manage to have a somewhat organised round in your own squad. But it is still lacking what we come to PR for. And the teamplay in the opfor team is usually pretty shit, understandably since it is quite hard to keep a squad together and useful on the insurgent side.

    It also requires both teams to be somewhat okay. If blufor is bad the insurgents will be bored because no one will attack. There is no mechanic other than ticket loss to give the ins side a win, which means they have to go out hunting 500 tickets from the blufor. This is generally quite boring compared to normal gameplay.

    If the ins side is bad both caches will be known, the bad ins wont be able to defend both and they will be overrun without offering much resistance to blufor.

    And adding to the problems, after playing a ins round the good squads from normal aas may be split up and the players are in a different mindset. Usually leading to less than optimal play the rounds after.
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    From which hours do you usually play Project Reality? Do you ever play when we are seeding? And what do you think of Insurgency during seeding/early in the day due to laid back playerbase?
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    PR:BF2 Resident Administrator

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    I play mostly in the evenings and some times during the daytime in weekends if I have some friends around. I may be afk seeding, but not playing. It is just not what I enjoy.
    I agree that for seeding it is useful, it is very easy to say not to destroy caches which means the map can last forever. And since it is easily played as a lonewolf simulator it works for seeding. But is it good PR? Is it something I would have played for years? Nope. It is low admin effort which is okay and if it gets the server full for AAS that is fine, but playing it during an evening isbarely tolerable.
    SucharMistrz and fecht_niko like this.
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    fecht_niko fecht_niko POV Leader

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    I agree with Filamu 100%.
    Sadly people prefer nowadays to seed with INS all the time because it is more relaxed and no one cares about balance or wining.
    Once the server has reached more than 50 players no one really wants to play INS because its boring as mentioned before.

    But I would like to see 1 day per week where you guys try seeding with skirmish as a test so we dont have to play fucking faludscha.
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    Sloan Sloan Pirate

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    We already tried. It doesn't work.
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    When was the last time you seeded?
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    Squad Resident Admin AREA 94 GC

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    No it worked for a few days but after that nobody kept setting skirmish and left it on Fallujah West.

    Also map votes are dumb.
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    PR:BF2 Resident Administrator AREA 94 GC

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    So are you
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    fecht_niko fecht_niko POV Leader

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    if that was the case you should try it again
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2018 ---
    every now and than but sadly I have less free time than someone from a supermarket :wink:
    But you agree that Falludscha is getting boring Wicca
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    Wicca Wicca Project Founder

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    Maybe you should stop commenting on something you don't know anything about then? :bag:
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    PR:BF2 Resident Administrator THOT

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    fallusha spelling is giving me aids
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    I would really appreciate it if the Discussion didn’t get derailed. I am quite happy there is a lot of interest to improve the server but if you want to discuss seeding methods make your own thread.

    The topic is about having Insurgency during normal gameplay and if we should have an INS AAS vote.

    I have to agree with Filamu his sentiment that the mindset and people playing are different after an ins round as well.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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