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!admins

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Inspect, Jul 8, 2017.

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  1. PR:BF2 Senior Administrator

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    Ok, lets go. I'm just gonna answer some general arguments that Chav and Ark made on TS the other day:

    1. Nobody needs !admins, because they can just go check TS.
    Yes, and in the same sense nobody needs !r because they can just go report it on TS. Or !shownext because they can just go ask TS. Both take too much time.

    2. Disabling the command is helping to catch trolls
    Okay, so apparently there's people joining to the server and instantly typing "!admins". And when they see nobody online, they begin to troll and tk, and the "secret admins" can handle it. Have you thought about what would happen if the !admins command was enabled? The guy wouldn't troll in the first place, so the server would be cleaner.

    3. But with the command disabled the server runs fine without admins online
    The server shouldn't run fine without admins online. If there will be no admins next round, just set a map that de-seeds or shut down the server. There should always be admins, at least on prism.

    4. Why would you even need !admins if you aren't planning to do anything stupid?
    Multiple different reasons. You would use the command for example:
    • To see whether or not admins are online, so is the server playable. No admins online means the server is dying.
    • To see whether or not there's multiple admins, or is there only one guy having a shitton of reports to go through.
    • To see are admins doing assets, inf or just AFK. If lot of admins are on assets, they probably can't answer to reports at all times, but if they are doing inf and not SL:ing, they should have more time.
    • To find an admin available, join their squad and explain something. Instead of a report, usually mic works much faster. And reports can disappear quickly, so if someone is stealing trans and needs the !kill now, joining another squad is easy.
    • To see if you already have an admin in your squad. No need to do reports for the whole round, and you can ask about next map set, rules etc.
    • To see if you have an admin on the other team. That way if you report a player from the other team eg. roadkilling, it gets handeled. You can even type the report in allchat for the specific admin.
    5. Admin team gets targeted because !admins command is on.
    I know that admin team is volunteers, and we should never tell you how to do your hobby. If you are in a public position like that, you are going to get shit and criticism. If you are not fit to recieve a lot of shit, you shouldn't probably be an admin in the first place. If you kick someone for breaking the rules, they will probably be mad at you, but that's why admins need to be mature enough to not get provoked easily.

    ---

    Chav, feel free to post your statistics about how disabling the command affected positively on the server. I would really like to see, how did you measure that.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
    azmoozO, TabZa, Blaze. and 13 others like this.
  2. Hayal_Israeli Hayal_Israeli Alone is better than in bad company

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    Yes I mainly agree with what is stated here. And another rason is to prevent players who arent admins impersonating as admins, which sometimes happens.
  3. Arnoldio Arnoldio Noot noot!

    Events PR:BF2 Resident Administrator PRTA

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    Everything except #2 makes sense.
  4. WeedT0aster WeedT0aster For god & country, Geronimo

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    just like what hayal said, you should have added one more thing, to see and to know who is the admins, admins get impersonated pretty often in the servers, and it's really hard to prevent that without that command enabled, but I don't disagree with what you wrote up there.
  5. Sysadmin PR:BF2 Senior Administrator Coder Foxtrot Donor

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  6. PR:BF2 Senior Administrator

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    I refuse to be a like-whore. But you can give actual input instead. :^)
  7. Foxtrot

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    do you know what happens when I alt tab when I'm in the heat of a firefight to check what admins are online?
    with my potato-rig I'll never be able to alt tab back ingame.

    - plus it costs time
    Jamil_12345678901 and Blaze. like this.
  8. tobi-the-fraggel tobi-the-fraggel 'Princess Negativity'

    Sysadmin

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    I disagree. I don't see anything bad in a server running fine without online admins. Quite the contrary, not needing to have admins would be the situation in a perfect world. The world isn't perfect I know. Still, if the situation on the server is stable then that's good. Admin online or not.
    So I would add #3 to your list.


    Using the OP as a base of arguments then using !admins or not comes down to weighing the advantages for players to communicate with admins against the admins ability to fight trolls by being disguised. So the question for me is, which argument is stronger or what is more important? Opinions?
  9. PR:BF2 Resident Administrator THOT

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    just playing devils advocate here and I aren't going to participate in this discussion any further than this comment.

    Why should admins have to be open to scrutinising when they make a decision to warn someone etc etc? They make an informed decision and 90% of the time it is following a discussion with a different admin about how a rule has been broken and what to do next. You shouldn't need to know who the admins are, who are playing, because they're making informed decisions based on their own experience and other admins experiences of what to do in said situation.

    I'm currently only a trial admin, and some of the decisions I've made, which are nowhere near top level admin work have relied upon the knowledge of the admin team who are all working as one to provide the best possible experience for everybody at all times.
    WeedT0aster, ArkUTD and Danielj15 like this.
  10. O_turista O_turista Tu Comes Atum [TCA]

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    Except for the fact you'll always need admins to set the next map, unless in the perfect world the map list is perfect. Furthermore, just like you said "the world isn't perfect", meaning that sooner or later is bound to happen something that requires the admins attention, let it be a player stealing an asset or a player spamming all chat.

    This means that the players instead of changing to another server, that has admins, may end the night sooner because the next map wasn't set or a troll ruined everything and now its simply to late to change servers.

    You're adding the 6th reason; Inspect never gave the "monitoring the admins" reason.
    Just like you naturally brought the subject up, "!admins" also allow the players to have an idea which admin did what.

    Why is this a good reason? Well for start PRTA own server report used to have the "admins involved" field, as its only normal in any situation around the world to ask, "You had a problem? With whom you had such problem?".

    Then, why should not admins have to be open to scrutinising? Is PRTA a perfect community that only accepts perfect admins? Even the best admin can expect to make a simple mistake. Allowing for the community to know the admin in question and point to his mistake only allows for him and the server to evolve.
  11. PR:BF2 Senior Administrator

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    To be extra clear (if it's not clear from the post), the statements in bold were trying to be short versions of the arguments made by PRTA admins on why the command should stay disabled. No. 1 is just one of many, and not the main argument.

    I stated multiple reasons on why the list of the admins should be available in my original post. And very much like in the real world with any authority, there's always a room for discussion and room for human error. I don't believe that admining a game server would somehow lack all the wrong decisions, and be 100% (or even 90%) correct.

    We need the !admins command because there might come a time that we have a guy with admining powers who doesn't know who GDW are. Obviously there might be some quirks of the game he is yet to learn, and that's why there is a "trial period" before actual admining. And seeing who the admin is, is just easier if there comes a need for correcting a decision made by specific admins.

    ---

    Also, disabling the command just contributes to the stereotype of PRTA censoring everything, and generally irritates people. And it is kind of a "dick move".
  12. diet diet 0% moti 100% of the time

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    Pretty often? the worst I have seen is some AW guy trying to warn me for tk when I """stole""" his techie.

    I don't really understand this, if an admin needs correcting then obviously the admins would deal with this by themselves no?

    I don't really care if the !admins command is disabled or not, I just don't give a fuck. But the good thing about the command i can think of is that players can see when the admins are squad leading or using assets, they know (hopefully) that they should be patient with their reports.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  13. O_turista O_turista Tu Comes Atum [TCA]

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    AND? Its already one too many.
    Seeing that with a real admin, both:
    • Attempting to inform the admin that he is wrong (eg: he didn't """stole""" his techie );
    • Ignoring the statement;
    Will more than likely lead you to be banned, a player without access to "!admins" is forced to comply.
  14. diet diet 0% moti 100% of the time

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    What leads you to getting banned is arguing over all chat, spamming it and annoying the other players, debating admin decision (which we assume is wrong in this case) and using the report function as a way to argue with the admins. The better way is just to join the teamspeak, you don't annoy the other players this way.
  15. PR:BF2 Senior Administrator

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    Admin can make a wrong decision ingame due to inexperience, eg. kicking a whole squad for first flag rush, when it's the next flag in cap order. The way that this gets resolved is to do an admin report so the admin knows better next time. Accidents do happen, and it's only a game, but I see no reason why the admin responsible couldn't be public. Sincere apology for the accident, and openness will probably yield a better community, than "ok the issue has been delt with" -post on the report thread.

    Same thing with ban appeals. Simplest and most straightforward way is for the banning admin to respond about the ban and his own views of the situation. This way if there is different opinions about the ban, the appraisal or criticism will be directed to the right person.

    Or do !admins, find an admin from a squad or in local, and talk with him ingame. I've done that way more often than joining TS during a round. Reports get handled much quicker this way, and its probably easier for the admin as well.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
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    Just to correct you, in this example it is normally a warn then a kill, never a kick.


    Also, as a moderator, I can see things getting a little tense or on the way to it, keep it calm and have a nice discussion, no need for bad language.

    Might I suggest bring evidence in game to provide a bases for any future discussion?

    Kind regards,

    ArkUTD, Moderator/PR Admin
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  17. O_turista O_turista Tu Comes Atum [TCA]

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    Might I suggest make the report forum visible again, so that we can use these reports as base for any future discussion?
  18. diet diet 0% moti 100% of the time

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    I agree with you here, I have had people join my squad regarding reports and it went a lot faster.
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    lol seriously!! All the problems PR has and this is what your bringing up. Of all the games ive played over the years i have never seen a group of players so desperate to have the names of admins. The amount of players that go through prta server weekly, how many you think are complaining about !admins command ? Just the same usual few, the rest just play the game, majority of players dont even use the command.
  20. WeedT0aster WeedT0aster For god & country, Geronimo

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    what are you trying to say by "AW guy" exactly?
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